Talk: Red Dot Sight (Specialization)

As per the style guide, shouldn't the name of this page be Red dot sight, as isn't "red dot sight" not normally capitalized? Son of a Magnet 19:45, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

I believe so, good call. However, I can't change it because I don't know how, lol. I'm guessing you'd have to be an admin to do that kind of stuff. President Eden Enclave Radio "Join the Enclave !" 02:02, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Well, from what I've learned in school, it's supposed to be every word that has a cap unless it is not an important word like "the" or "on" (unless they're the first word, of course). So it would be like: "The Sad Dog Is on the Porch". I don't necessarily remember everything from the MoS, but if that's what it says, maybe it would be ideal to move it... BTW, President (lol, it's funny calling you that), at the top of the page, there's the "Move" option. That's how you rename an article. Remember to give a reason and to create a redirect, as well as move the according talk page. SSD 天皇陛下萬歳！ 02:30, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Well, official English "title case" (what you describe) and wiki article title capitalization conventions are different things. The BF wiki's MoS doesn't explicitly mention it, but Wikipedia's does: [1]. These are entries in a reference manual, not a series of essays or short stories; you wouldn't capitalize all the entries in a dictionary. Son of a Magnet 11:56, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ah I see. Ok, feel free to move the page to "Red dot sight". Do it for any other article in which you see a similar case. SSD 天皇陛下萬歳！ 13:17, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Wow, it really is right there... I feel like an idiot now, lol. Oh well, thanks for telling me anyways. President Eden Enclave Radio "Join the Enclave today!" 06:15, August 5, 2010 (UTC)\

lol, no problem. Took me a while to figure it out too. SSD 天皇陛下萬歳！ 13:17, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

The name of this article is "Red dot sight" (with the initial capital) because the Wikimedia software requires all articles names to begin with a capital letter. This does not mean that the term "red dot sight" (or "reflex sight", for that matter) should always have the first letter capitalized. Were it a type of sight designed by William Aloysius Red, things would be different, but it's not, so they aren't. I'm going to alter the capitalization back unless a convincing objection appears. Son of a Magnet 20:22, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

So, should it be "cutscene" (not in the dictionary), "cut-scene", or "cut scene"? Son of a Magnet 15:07, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Name change

Listen! We are breaching the Article Policy here. The Article Policy states that the page should be named as the gadget is in game, so the page name should be Red Dot Sight.

Evidence/reasoning: On the BC2 website, under the game info section, the RDS specialisation is called Red Dot Sight. This is also true in-game Concrete Evidence HeatedPete^Talk 20:35, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

http://www.badcompany2.ea.com/game-info?p=special&i=ul_sp_assault_r Evidence. Peter Griffen Boy^{Radio Operator}

Damnit, can't you people make up your minds? I just changes a bunch of articles involving this to lowercase and now its supposed to be uppercase? Where the hell were you guys six hours ago 'cause I didn't see this! Well, back to fixing things... again. President Eden Enclave Radio "Join the Enclave today!" 23:49, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

We use the in game name, not the gramital correct or real name. If there was a AC998 Machine Gun (made up) and in one billion Battlefield game sit was called Automatic Gun, it would be named Automatic Gun. If it was called that in one billion Battlefield games, and in one Battleifeld gam eis was called AC998 Machine Gun, we would use the later of the names. The in game name that is most correct, we use. Peter Griffen Boy^{Radio Operator}

I understand, its just kind of annoying that no one noticed that before we changed the article after having a discussion over it. President Eden Enclave Radio "Join the Enclave today!" 04:06, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Hold on, though (and I promise I'm not just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative here), but according to your link, the specialization is called "RED DOT SIGHT" in all capital letters (in the game it's called merely "RED DOT", again in all capitals). In fact, the names of all the weapons, vehicles, specializations, etc. are presented both on the website and in the game only in all caps. Should we rename all these articles to be in ALL CAPS?

Furthermore, the policy states "Weapons are named how they are in-game", which I gather we are all assuming means "the names of articles on real-life things that appear in the game should appear as the names of those things appear in the game". This is problematic, though, because sometimes the specific name of an item will differ from game to game. Take the AKS-74u, for instance. BF2 calls it the "AK-74U", Modern Combat calls it the "AK 74U", Bad Company calls it the "AKS74u", and BC2 calls it the "AKS-74u". In this case, how was the name for the article chosen? This article is in similar territory. While the RED DOT SIGHT is a BC2 specialization that takes the form of a red dot sight added to one's weapon, red dot sights certainly feature in other games.

I say what I say next not because I am trying to dictate policy, but because I think it's kind of lame to point out a problem and bitch about it without suggesting a solution. The policy is unclear; I suggest that in cases like this, where the "in-game name" to use is ambiguous, that the article bear the subject's real-life name, with separate appropriately-named subheadings for the various games (just like the AKS-74u article). Son of a Magnet 05:46, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

1. Problem with that is that DICE made the names of weapons/specialisations in all caps to make them easy to read on screen, especially if a player had a small TV screen when normal text would be hard to read. That's why the names are all caps

1. with the AKS-74U case, then you go with majority verdict: the most used name (AKS-74u) is used for the name of the weapon n-game, and then redirects are made for the other names. And anyway, this article is about the red dot sight specialisation, not the red dots of other weapons in the series.

1. Article policy states that the name must be that of the weapon in-game, so that would be like re-naming the M416 article HK416, when it is never mentioned as that in-game. This is an encyclopedia about Battlefield games, not everything. HeatedPete^Talk 07:30, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

This is an argument about a rather small detail, and therefore I think it's particularly important that the details of the arguments involved be clear to every one. Two things are not clear to me.

1. You say that the names of articles should appear exactly as the names of their subjects appear in game; this makes sense to me. The names of many things in BC2 only ever appear in game (and supporting materials) in all capital letters. I understand that this is for legibility (and probably a certain bold aesthetic the game designers wanted to convey), but the reason is irrelevant. If the name only ever appears in all capital letters, how are we supposed to know what the "appropriate" capitalization is? Did you just assume that "Red Dot Sight" is a proper noun because it is the name of an Important Thing in the game?
2. As for the AKS-74u, my point is that there is no majority verdict. Every game calls it something slightly different. How'd you pick?

Furthermore, while I agree that this is a Battlefield wiki and not a real-life encyclopedia, many of the articles here (particularly for those subjects that appear in multiple games, like Russia or the M16) nonetheless begin with a small blurb about the real-life version of the subject and then go on to discuss its roles in the various games. As red dot sights appear in multiple games, shouldn't this article be organized that way? Son of a Magnet 14:05, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Further-even-more: While in real life, red dot sights are a type of reflex sight, the game never refers to the Red Dot Sight Specialization as the "Reflex Sight Specialization", so shouldn't we remove any mention of "reflex sight" from the article? I ask this question mainly to support my assertion in the previous paragraph. Son of a Magnet 14:20, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

II Helljumper II — Alpha Mike Foxtrot!: TALK — Friday, April 19, 2024 Id just keep it as it is now. Its a name that most people would know.

It would make sense to add "(Specialization)" to the end of the article's name, and create another article as "Red dot sight" and then have a disambiguation page for both so that we could have one that relates to all games that its in: BF2, BF2:MC, and BC1's MG36 (also a section for BC2 that refers to the specialization). Thats what the real Wikipedia does (which this site is somewhat based off of anyways) in these situations. We could do the same for 4X Rifle Scope for guns in BF2/MC that have scopes like the SUSAT, ACOG, etc. I'd create an example here, but that would take up too much room. But if everyone wants to leave this as-is, thats works too. It's only a suggestion. President Eden Enclave Radio "Join the Enclave today!" 17:27, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

DEathgod65 — (PC Gamers): TALK — Friday, 19 April 2024 It would be better to leave it as it is.

Okay, if we're going to leave the article title and focus as is, I'm going to clean it up so it is excruciatingly only about the Red Dot Sight Specialization and not reflex sights in general. Son of a Magnet 11:52, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Stop with talk boxes, they add a lot of code and lag just for one sentence. 1 paragraph with no talk box= 1 word with talkbox, stop. Peter Griffen Boy^{Radio Operator}

Fine. DEathgod65 - OMDF (Contact)

Split?

This should probably be split into Red Dot Sight (specialization) and Red Dot Sight (attachment) to avoid confusion, and instead made a disambig page with associated "Were you looking for..." notices. Agree/disagree anyone? PresidentEden78 04:27, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

I like it. I'd rather it that way, because it just makes the difference clear. But, uh, which one would we give the bronze to? If I recall, i nominated it when it just had the BFBC2 section... SSDGFCTCT9(Talk) 04:30, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Then give it to the specialization. I thought it was a good idea to avoid confusion. Might want Red Dot Sight to redirect to the attachment, and the spec be separate. People will be more interested in the attachment over the spec now. PresidentEden78 04:37, August 19, 2011 (UTC)